be really clear as to why Oroton and why fashion. Why was I making this move from a job that I actually really loved and was my home for 15 years, I learned everything I knew about business at McKinsey, with a group of people who valued me, who knew me, who gave me all kinds of graces in the world, to something brand new, I had to have conviction.  I felt really strongly about the potential of the business and the brand. And from the outside, when I looked at Will [Vicar’s] leadership, I said to myself, “Oh, here’s someone who’s emotionally invested in this brand. He’s an investor. So he comes with capital, and resources. But he also is quite invested emotionally, there’s something he really believes in.” And that was a signal to me.  I think the brand itself, and the fact that it was 80+ years old, and had survived so many ups and downs and market changes. There is something untapped there and there’s gold in that. I had high conviction about the potential. And then the option of being an operator from day one in the CEO role, coming from consulting and getting the chance to do that right away is not something you get offered all the time. So I looked at that package, and I thought, ‘Hey, there’s real potential here for me as personal growth in my career, life and this business.’ And the journey 10 months later, has been a journey of even greater conviction. It’s been a really amazing 10 months. IR: What would you say are some of the interesting insights that you’ve learned from McKinsey that have been relevant for you so far? JC: One of my friends is one of the best strategists in McKinsey globally and we talked about this framework that I use here regularly, which is: structure plus conduct equals performance. The simplicity of that is the market that you play in, there are things that are outside of your control. We cannot control the impacts of Covid. But there are headwinds and tailwinds and you have to be able to understand them. It’s [not] just about the choices you’re making and your conduct. For me, that is probably one of the stickiest things from McKinsey that I’ve put into this business. Most businesses are used to saying, “Well, it’s all about us. It’s all about the stuff we decided to do, the collection we put out and the results we got from it. Good or bad. I flog myself or I pat myself on the back either way. And it misses a really big component.” IR: What’s it been like entering the fashion world for you? JC: It’s been exciting. It’s been one of the biggest growth challenges of my career. It’s been exciting because I’ve always loved fashion and I’ve always been a consumer of fashion. I dabbled in industry things. Vogue editor Edwina McCann brought me onto the Australian Fashion Council board. I was always studying it and loving it as a consumer, but not really operating close to the inside workings of it. So entering fashion in that way has been exciting for me.  It’s also exciting because of what the business is doing, like Fashion Week and to participate in something that’s so creative. McKinsey’s a very analytical place. You’re problem solving, you’re studying, you’re breaking down complex things into all its parts and pieces. So to just produce something that’s so utterly creative and put it out in the world is really exciting.  The challenging side of the transition of how do I create value? I’ve gone from a world where creating value was cerebral problem solving. That was a huge chunk of how I created value for my clients and the firm. In here, it’s still a component, but it’s a much smaller component. And now it’s about leading people. You always hear that it’s such a tough transition for management consultants to make when they get into operating roles. And man, has it been – just to be able to flip your mindset and actually feel good about yourself that that’s where you’re spending the majority of your time now. It’s inspiring all these people who are here doing their job to what we’re trying to accomplish together. That’s my job now. It’s not spending my entire day cracking hard problems. That’s what the team is doing in a way and I’m shepherding and involved in that. That’s been a huge challenge. IR: What have you learned about yourself as a leader? JC: Well, I’ve learned to be very humble. I always believed that I was really good with people. And I thought, “Well, I can make friends easily.” At a really basic level, I’ve always been able to have lots of friends around me in school, and also be the teacher’s pet didn’t. Those roles with other humans have come really easy and naturally to me. And when I’ve taken on this challenge, I’ve actually said, “That intrinsic quality is helpful, but you’ve got to study this, you got to be intentional in how you show up with people to be a good leader.”  I read Bob Iger’s book before I started, where he talks about his role at Disney. And that was really inspirational. There’s real skill and logic in how you show up as a leader. That people skill that I always thought I was good at, it’s really about working and getting coached and getting help on how to be a good leader. It has been a real eye opener for me. IR: Have here been any interesting surprises that you’ve come across since starting at Oroton? JC: I think the thing about fashion that’s unique and our business, in particular, is being a brand that creates our own product. We’ve got this sort of end to end value chain that we control. And in order to be good at what we do, what has been really eye opening is that it’s not a business where it can be governed solely by commercial principles. So if you’re in other industries, let’s say telco or things that are very driven by commercial missions and tactics – those things can actually make you great.  But here, there’s another really important force, which is creativity, and if you try to govern creativity with commercial principles, you’ll crush it. It’ll die.  I think that’s why that topic of innovation and business has been one studied for so long. How do you drive outcomes and allow room for innovation at the same time? It’s a really similar concept. But here, it’s such a strong force in the centre of the business. What’s that healthy tension between the commercial values and principles and goals of the business and that space for creativity, and that sort of outward force of putting something out into the world and not being bound by what people tell me I need to do? That’s been a real eye opener. It’s a hard balance to strike. I probably still don’t get it right most days, but I think about it a lot. I wasn’t thinking about it a lot right at the beginning. I was thinking, “Commercial principles, logic”  and now I get that yes to be right. IR: I think it’s a big step for someone who’s come from that sort of analytics background to actually embrace creativity and understand that it can’t be stifled basically, because it’s the antithesis of commercial and transactional. JC: You kind of have to shut your mouth and say, “Okay, show me show me what that is. Because I don’t even think I understand it.” I’ve spent a lot of time with the Melbourne team, [watching] the way they craft their apparel collections, where they get inspiration from and mood boards, the whole process…you just have to shut your mouth, listen and take it in. I understand it at least a little bit more now and how to hold it gently. You have to allow it to do its thing, because it’s amazing. IR: On the flipside, there are those fashion labels where it’s all about the creativity, all about the ego and the design, and then commercially, it’s going nowhere. You’ve got these designers who are designing for themselves and their size zero friends. I think there are a lot of businesses that still struggle with that as well, right? JC: Absolutely. If we want to be the most loved fashion brand in the history of Australia, we have to get that balance right. We were born as the first luxury fashion Australian brand, I think in the history of the country that has had the success and longevity we’ve had. And that means that our appeal can still be broad and it means that commercial principle of having enough breadth in our collections and our sizing and the face that we put out there that represents more than just a niche of the world. That is the balance we’re trying to strike. And I’m thinking about it all the time.