est event ever. I’m so happy to be back with you, it’s been a long time. JH: It has been such a long time. I remember when you were actually designing your Met Gala dress. It was on the mannequin and you had a skirt and you were taking m e through what you were thinking of doing. I thought, “This is a moment for the ages. I will remember this moment, this is as close as I get to true pure fashion genius!”  JL: The Met Ball in years gone by, it feels like a lifetime ago! JH: You have never been in a box, you have never been confined. Even whilst you’re in fashion, you were giving me direction about beauty: “Look what they’re doing on Instagram with these sites. I love watching people doing their makeup applications”  and “have you seen this brand?” and “have you seen this new service?” Your level of knowledge in beauty was always extraordinary. You’ve gone from fashion and being an absolute fashion icon to this foray into beauty. I’m fascinated to hear the journey from fashion, to how you went into beauty. JL: People don’t always totally understand that there is no world in which fashion doesn’t exist. Anytime you’re doing a photoshoot or a show or whatever it may be, you’re constantly thinking about the look – it doesn’t stop once the clothes are on. What is the hair? Is it soft or is it a sweaty ballerina look where she’s got a tousled up-do? Is it something where she’s got a bright red lip and no eye makeup? Does she look a little tanned? What’s the vibe that you’re going for? And that’s often a deep consideration in terms of really completing the look.  Beauty, like fashion, has changed so much over the years. In the later part of the ’70s, there was no-makeup makeup and really bronze tanned skin and tousled hair, and then you go into the ’80s, with dramatic eyeliner and wedge haircuts. All of it contributes to fashion, so [my move into beauty] doesn’t feel like a far stretch. It didn’t feel like a massive pivot, it was always something that was really deeply connected to the way I was thinking at J Crew, or Madewell, or even J Crew Factory.  LoveSeen really came about honestly, just because…I don’t have any eyelashes. And when I was at J Crew, I noticed that all of the women were coming into meetings with eyelash extensions. And these were women who, for the most part, really didn’t wear any makeup at all, they were pretty clean faced, yet they all found that desire to have dramatic eyelashes. At the same time, I was becoming obsessed with beauty tutorials and I noticed that even in the most over-the-top beauty tutorials, where the girls were making themselves look like dolls and using 10 layers of concealer and highlighter, they would plop on an eyelash at the very end. I thought it was really interesting that these two really diverse sides of the spectrum of beauty were focusing on eyelashes, and I realised that there really wasn’t a lot in between. You had very over-the-top glam looks, then you had just really super clean, pared down lashes. I couldn’t really wear the big over-the-top eyelashes because they just looked crazy on me. Because I don’t have any eyelashes, I need something a little more delicate. There just wasn’t anything on the market that I could wear and so I felt, ‘Well, why couldn’t I do that myself?’ We put a business plan together, got some partners and we were off to the races. I still can’t believe it actually happened. JH: You’ve got this ability to forecast trends and to make trends. Can you take us through how you forecast what we all want? JL: Things go in cycles and often I’ll notice that the thing I used to think was ugly is always the thing that I want. I remember when I used to think high-waisted jeans were just terrible. And I thought, ‘But I’m going to want them because I think they’re terrible.’ If something feels off and weird, in a couple of years, it’s going to be exactly what you want. And I don’t know how or why that is, but it stands a lot of time in fashion and real estate, and sometimes in beauty. We are creatures of change, we want change, even though we don’t know it. We’re constantly [asking] ‘What is happening next?’ or ‘What feels boring and stale?’ or ‘What feels really set in its ways?’ That’s the thing that will often need reinvention.  That’s why I found myself so interested in this space, because I think eyelashes, clearly, if you looked around, were gaining interest and people were wearing them and buying them; they were becoming much more prevalent, but they were really prevalent in a very specific way. So how do you round that out? There’s white space there, because there’s already a movement towards it. But there are definitely things that are not getting addressed right now. And so how do you address those missing elements? That’s how I think trends evolve: What is it that you hate one year, but will love the next and what’s the missing element? Where are people not playing? JH: How does it feel to transition from fashion veteran into indie beauty newbie at this moment? JL: The beauty industry as a whole has been so incredibly welcoming. I have been fortunate enough to have been around enough for people to kind of know who I am. I think there’s just been a general level of excitement for someone new in the space, but I also have a little bit of legacy. I sort of know what I’m doing, I’m not completely flying by the seat of my pants, I have a little bit of process baked into the way I think about things and what I’m doing. What I love now in the beauty space is the way that it’s approachable, and it feels so much more diverse in general. I think the conversation is changing. It’s amazing to be talking about beauty in a much more inclusive way. Had I launched 10 years ago, I think the conversation would have probably been different, it would have been much harder. I just feel so incredibly grateful to be in this space. JH: What trends are you beginning to see emerge in beauty or in fashion? What made you notice them? What’s exciting you?  JL: After coming out of the pandemic, a lot of the bigger brands have really survived, which is interesting. Part of what Rockefeller Centre is trying to really support are a lot of the brands that haven’t really had opportunities – female-owned businesses, Black-owned businesses, smaller, New York-based businesses [Lyons consulted with the team to reimagine Rockefeller Centre several years ago]. There is this desire for a lot of people to have something where they know where it came from. We see that in the beauty space as well in terms of what you’re putting on your face and what’s in the product.That’s a very forward-thinking and really interesting shift and I’m thrilled to see that happening.